When you see this man, think of Packer (or any other member of the First Presidency or Qof12).

2-Bit Prophets

I’m working on a different research project that I’ll hopefully upload here soon, but thought this might be worth adding.  As many of you probably know, Boyd Packer spoke to a “multi-stake” conference in Utah and the regions thereabout back on September 12th.  A few of the sites I meander to on occasion had devoted large threads to discussing what he did, or did not, say.  What these sites shared, and those posting stated, were the inspiration for this.

In an email correspondence with a couple of my friends, one of them received an email from another friend which discussed this same conference and what Packer had said.

What’s amusing is that this isn’t the first time this sort of thing has surrounded Packer.  In 2001, Packer rather infamously stated (or did he?) this statement that has been denied by all parties involved:

“The youth of the Church today were generals in the war in heaven.”

This rumor was so widespread that the LDS church had to issue a formal denial through the LDS Church News on April 28, 2001, which read:

“[Boyd Packer] did not make that statement.  I do not believe that statement.  … None of the Brethren made that statement.”

In 2008, at a rather infamous talk given to the Forest Bend Ward, Packer was alleged to have said some fairly dire things about the then current economic climate.  In one such email that made the rounds among the LDS community, one sister noted:

“I can’t even begin to describe what an amazing and wonderful meeting it was today. The Spirit was so strong and the counsel so heartfelt and direct:  a personal message for us, each of us, delivered by an Apostle of the Lord, from the Lord.  A message to counsel, inspire, and strengthen us in troubled and worry-filled times.  And yet so uplifting!  Reminding us of the great promises the Lord has made to us.  It was a sacred experience and I am so grateful I was there and that I’m able to share some part of it with you.[1]

This “inspiring” talk was, once again, denied to have happened by all the pertinent parties and merely a result of our internet culture.  The “Church Public Affairs” office stated that although Packer did speak a that ward (the Forest Bend Ward), there was no official transcript of the talk.  As such, the one making the rounds in emails must have been written after the meeting and therefore “not be considered authoritative.”[2]

That talk, it seems, stated that:

“We live in troubled times.  There is a great financial crisis and we’ve seen something that hasn’t happened in the last 60 years:  the world’s financial markets are collapsing … I pronounce upon you an Apostolic blessing. Comfort our children. Little children can be afraid of things we might not think of. Comfort them and strengthen our families. Turn off the television and focus on family. Pay your tithing. The promise is there – pay your tithing and you’ll be watched over. You’ll be alright. None of us is exempt from trials. If hard times come upon you and your income dwindles, remember that tithing is equitable for everyone: 10%. If you have nothing, then it’s 10% of practically nothing. Pay your tithing, do what you’re supposed to do. You’ll be comforted.  Sure, trials will come. Because of them, faith will increase. Happiness will increase. Security will increase.”

Whether or not true, in spite of the doctrinal inconsistencies mentioned therein, it’s alleged to not have happened.  In response to such matters, the Church reported, back in May 2004, that:

“From time to time statements are circulated among members which are inaccurately attributed to the leaders of the Church. Many such statements distort current Church teachings and are often based on rumors and innuendos. They are never transmitted officially, but by word of mouth, e-mail, or other informal means.

We encourage members of the Church to never teach or pass on such statements without verifying that they are from approved Church sources, such as official statements, communications, and publications. Any notes made when General Authorities, Area Authority Seventies, or other general Church officers speak at regional and stake conferences or other meetings should not be distributed without the consent of the speaker. Personal notes are for individual use only. [emphasis added by FAIR]

True spiritual growth is based on studying the scriptures, the teachings of the Brethren, and Church publications.”

Though you won’t find that letter on the LDS Church News site which acts as a repository for First Presidency Letters[3], it’s nevertheless assumed to be true.

Then again, this past week another one of these “events” is reported to have happened.  This time Packer is alleged to have said,

“I’ve thought a lot about this conference and all of you and brother Holland and the others have talked about the pioneer days. THEY HAD THE EASY PART. From now on it’s going to be different and it’s going to be rougher. When you think of the Hole in the Rock or Rocky Ridge or any of the other places where the pioneers served, in many ways their part was easier than our part is going to be.  … The easy times are in the past. The Rocky Ridge and the other pioneer challenges like the Hole in The Rock were the easy times. Now we have the difficult times. But we’re not being left without strength and power. The priesthood is with us and the gospel is with us as we live our lives as best we can. We have a father that will guide us and he will correct us, sometimes painfully, but he’ll correct us.”[4] (emphasis was in the original emailed sent to me.  I assume it’s not original to the actual talk).

LDS bloggers have gleefully responded:

“All of the messages were very strong and very clear. Despite all that was said I feel that those who have heeded the voice of the prophets and have done all that they could to prepare will not have reason to fear.  The messages were a strong confirmation for me of the timeline that we are on. … Big big changes coming in the next 6 months to a year. General Conference will be amazing I have no doubt.”


“Just heard from a friend that attended and gave very much the same report as the others who have posted. I’m glad I got another 120 lbs of flour in sealed containers last week. Time to visit the cannery again this week for more milk.”


“I really appreciate all of your posts. It sounds like it was an amazing conference. I hope some of you took notes and can share further with us. It certainly does seem that now is the time to get with the program and to do whatever we need to as soon as we’re able.”


“Like others here, I was impressed that Pres. Packer was giving us a warning. He actually mentioned the fact that the pioneers had it easy three different times. I won’t give the exact quote (I wrote it down) but in essence he said The pioneers had the easy part. Things will be different for us in the future. It was similar to the warning he gave a year ago in April’s priesthood session where he said We move from a generation of ease and entertainment to a generation of hard work and responsibility. We do not know how long that will last. Some here have suggested that his talk was typical stake conference fodder, but I couldn’t disagree more. It was a warning loud and clear for those with ears to hear.”


“Great day in the morning! [He] has now realized that the brethren are NOT and have NOT been silent!”


“…our Stake Pres mentioned in the Sat night session that a lot of the negative influences are coming from the press. He also stated that he was going to stop listening to most of the news, including Fox as he no longer felt the Spirit during many of their broadcasts. Our Stake Pres works for the Church in the Education Department and travels all over the World on various assignments from the Brethren.”

And this would be the crème de la crème of the bunch:

“Elder Bruce R. McConkie said in General Conference, I don’t remember which one, that the saints would experience greater future persecution than any they have experienced in the past. That seems to be the same prophecy that Elder Boyd K. Packer is making here. In the mouth of two or more witnesses are all things established. This is the Law of Witnesses.”

As these examples show, people were very much satisfied to hear such a strong “voice of warning,” indeed, a “prophecy.”

In response to this email, a different (good) friend of mine chimed in:

“Elder Packer seems to be hinting about upcoming trials.  That agrees with the scriptures.  His conclusion “The priesthood is with us and the gospel is with us as we live our lives as best we can does not agree with what the Savior told the Nephites about the church in our day.  This sounds like more “feel good” and “follow the Prophet” tripe.

The Lord warned us quite clearly what to expect “But if they will not turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, I will suffer them, yea, I will suffer my people, O house of Israel, that they shall go through among them, and shall tread them down, and they shall be as salt that hath lost its savor, which is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of my people, O house of Israel.” (3 Nephi 1:15)

The “they” and “them” here refers to the people of the latter-day Gentile church which has frittered away the Fullness of the Gospel.  These things spoken of by the Savior, and by Elder Packer, appear to be at our door.

Living our lives “as best we can”…if that means chasing the idols of Babylon as the large majority of LDS people have been doing for generations…won’t cut it.  The Lord told us that He will not protect the Gentiles (LDS people) “if they will not turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice”.  The scriptures agree with Elder Packer that things are going to get ugly very soon.  The scriptures do NOT support his assurances of forthcoming Divine protection for those within the LDS church who live “as best we can.”

“Why should we any longer jump and twitch, or even take much note, of the weak hints issuing forth from modern day leaders who have failed so significantly in their responsibility to WARN of the rapidly impending “calamity” when every two-bit internet prophet can now see what’s coming!”

Every pundit on the internet is also hinting at bad times coming.  It doesn’t take a prophet to see that the economy is continuing to crumble, despite the lying assurances issuing out of the White House.  The “hard times” foretold by the Savior will catch most people, including those in the church who don’t study the Book of Mormon, by complete surprise.”

As the author of “The Unwritten Order of Things,” I fail to see how his remarks are anything remarkable.  Because a guy (Packer) is in a position of authority that LDS members cling to with their entire belief system only appeals to those inclined to believe in a “doomsday” scenario, waiting with bated breath.  Then, flags and eyebrows are all raised and suddenly everyone pays attention to what’s going on.

If Packer (or anyone else for that matter) were to truly prophesy and call everyone to repentance, then figurative riots would happen in the streets.  But, then, calling us to repentance would more than likely condemn our participation in the City Creek Center and other Babylonian endeavors.

My thoughts?

I find it amusing how quick we jump when someone inside the church, but only when it’s a member of leadership, says how bad things are and how bad they may become in the future.  If you take the exact same words and put them in any other persons mouth the information is shoved to the side and its truthfulness questioned.  When Boyd states it, though, it’s prophecy, truth and such an “inspiring” “voice of warning.”

Talk about an amazing cult of personality we hold to.

But, only so amazing as this comment (emphasis is mine):

“Over the years, I have had a hard time understanding people who get so angry or upset at something the prophet says, and they even go against what the prophet or apostles say.

If you believe that the President of the Church is truly a prophet of God, wouldn’t you want to know what he says? There are times when I don’t know exactly what is the truth, or which way to look at a situation, but when the prophet, or apostles speak, that clarifies it for me. I want to know what the Lord wants or desires. If there is something I have trouble accepting or understanding, I pray about it in order to understand and/or accept, but I don’t go against it, or the prophet, or the church. I stand back until that understanding comes.

If you believe that the prophet really is a prophet of God, then we should follow him, and I do know that Pres. Monson is a prophet of God & Boyd K. Packer is an apostle.

How many times in the scriptures have we read that a prophet was writting what had been revealed to him, when the Lord forbids him to write more. I know that the general authorities know more than we do. How many times have they been told not to reveal more to the general church members? I have no idea, but I know that they know more than I do.”

Cue sarcasm:

As we gather round the TV and Internet for general conference, we should remember that “general authorities know more than we do” and that if we follow the prophets blindly, yay, stupidly (because they do know more than us) we will be blessed.  The Lord honors those who follow the “arm of the flesh” in faithfulness.  Hooray for blind obedience.

Perhaps Nephi might have something applicable to this situation:

And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have atrusted.  My God hath been my asupport; he hath led me through mine bafflictions in the wilderness; and he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.  He hath filled me with his alove, even unto the bconsuming of my flesh. He hath confounded mine aenemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.  Behold, he hath heard my cry by day, and he hath given me aknowledge by bvisions in the night-time.  And by day have I waxed bold in mighty aprayer before him; yea, my voice have I sent up on high; and angels came down and ministered unto me.   And upon the wings of his Spirit hath my body been acarried away upon exceedingly high mountains. And mine eyes have beheld great things, yea, even too great for man; therefore I was bidden that I should not write them.”[5]

But see, Nephi was wrong here.  He only thinks his support was his God.  In actuality, had he been alive when there were 15 prophets and apostles prophesying every time their mouths opened, he too would have put is support and trust in them.  Heck, I can’t believe anyone believes any differently.  How can you not follow lockstep when you have men who (a) know more than you, or I do and (b) are speaking scripture every time they open their mouths?

It’s sheer insanity to believe any differently.  The pathway is marked clear.  If you have any question, simply read declaration #1.  They can’t be led astray.  They can’t do wrong.  They are infallible.  They are our pope.  They define, interpret, give, state, utter, profess and state scripture whenever they speak.  They are scripture.  They are walking books of knowledge.  The Book of Packer – The Written and Unwritten Order of Things.  The Book of Monson – To The Rescue.  The Book of Nelson – The Story of  A Disciple of Armand Hammer.  And on and on.  Come on people, the scriptures state what, “when you awaken to the sense of your awful situation.”  You need to awaken and realize that your only salvation is in following the Brethren.  Anything else is diced tomatoes.  Anything else is chopped liver.  Anything else is insanity.

Repent, ye vile sinners for thinking that you should have a personal relationship with Christ or God when you have men to whom your allegiance belongs.  Smart men.  men way smarter and way more inspired than you ever could be.  Thus Saith Tom, return to your golden calves (or gray haired old men) and hear their counsel.  Follow their ways.  Build multi-billion dollar investments and be satiated with your spoils.  Thus ended Tom’s saith-ings.

End sarcasm.

[1] http://community.babycenter.com/post/a1883615/forest_bend_ward-president_packer.  Retrieved 09/27/2010.

[2] http://www.fairblog.org/2008/10/20/talk-by-president-boyd-k-packer-goes-viral/.  Retrieved 09/27/2010.

[3] See:  http://www.ldschurchnews.com/letters/

[4] Packer, Boyd.  09/12/2010.  Utah Multi-Stake Conference.  Allegedly.

[5] See:  2 Ne. 4:19-25.

  1. James Steven Graham says:

    If Joseph had made the same warnings, we would have taken heed. But we (or at least some of us) don’t have the same feelings when the current leadership speaks. What is the difference? I presume it’s because we (or at least some of us) do not hold them as prophets as we do Joseph.

  2. James Steven Graham says:

    Americans are the most gullible people who ever existed. They tend to support the government instead of the Constitution (http://www.independentamerican.org/2010/09/27/it-is-official-the-us-is-a-police-state/)

    As I read this, I substituted general authorities for government and standard words for Constitution.



  3. Aron says:


    It’s not that I choose to disregard them, whereas I’d listen if it were Joseph, but rather the paradox it presents. Everybody and their mother have been saying how bad things are going to get. The statements by anyone not holding the title of ‘Elder’ or ‘President’ are usually thought of as good, at best, or disregardable, at worst. Generally the latter. Only when it comes from an “approved” source do people jump up and down and champion the statement.

    If, for example, those same words came from Barack Obama, or Harry Reid, or Orrin Hatch, or Tim Tebow, or Chief Sitting Bull, or Apostle Porcupine, or LDSA or WeepingforZion or OWIW or anyone for that matter, they’re “just words.” Yet, with Packer it’s “prophecy.” As such, it seems it’s not the message that counts, but the messenger and the office that person holds. Is there any other way to look at that? If we adhere to who gives the message more than we adhere to what the message is, then we’re no better than those who believe in the infallibility of the Pope.

    Besides, as a “prophet,” “seer,” or “revelator,” perhaps a little more attention should be drawn to the timing. These statements (both the “alleged” talk in 2008 and this one) were given well after the notion of economic instability had reached a cacaphonous level. Maybe it’s splitting hairs a little, but when we read the D&C we’re left with a quandary we don’t really want to discuss.


    “Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servants, concerning the parable of the wheat and of the tares: Behold, verily I say, the field was the world, and the apostles were the sowers of the seed; And after they have fallen asleep the great persecutor of the church, the apostate, the whore, even Babylon, that maketh all nations to drink of her cup, in whose hearts the enemy, even Satan, sitteth to reign—behold he soweth the tares; wherefore, the tares choke the wheat and drive the church into the wilderness.” (D&C 86:1-3.)


    “And now, I will show unto you a parable, that you may know my will concerning the redemption of Zion. A certain nobleman had a spot of land, very choice; and he said unto his servants: Go ye unto my vineyard, even upon this very choice piece of land, and plant twelve olive-trees; And set watchmen round about them, and build a tower, that one may overlook the land round about, to be a watchman upon the tower, that mine olive-trees may not be broken down when the enemy shall come to spoil and take upon themselves the fruit of my vineyard. Now, the servants of the nobleman went and did as their lord commanded them, and planted the olive-trees, and built a hedge round about, and set watchmen, and began to build a tower. And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower? And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace? Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things. And while they were at variance one with another they became very slothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord. And the enemy came by night, and broke down the hedge; and the servants of the nobleman arose and were affrighted, and fled; and the enemy destroyed their works, and broke down the olive-trees.” (D&C 101:43-51.)

    It’s interesting that it talks about giving the money “to the exchangers” because there was/is no need for “this tower.” These scriptures suggest that there are those apostles who believe that there’s “no need for these things.” That that money should be spent with the Babylonian exchangers (investments in for-profit enterprises, like the City Creek Center). That a divine, revelatory watchtower is of no need. That we “don’t need much revelation.” And, amidst their “variance,” they hearken “not to the commandments of the Lord.” They drop the ball.

    Somewhere in that time line things went amiss.

  4. James Steven Graham says:

    “If we adhere to who gives the message more than we adhere to what the message is, then we’re no better than those who believe in the infallibility of the Pope.”

    So are you bemoaning the fact that we give credence to people based upon their office, or that they have fallen asleep and have chosen not to build the hedge and to give funds to the bankers?


  5. zo-ma-rah says:

    Great post. It mage me cringe when it talked about paying 10% and that the poor are to pay 10%. Do our leaders even know what the commandments are? It makes me wonder sometimes. The poor are supposed to be given and we are only to pay ten percent of our increase.

    After reading the post over at puremormonism I now cringe everytime I hear Bruce M’s name. I almost ran screaming from Deseret Book when I saw a huge tower of his books in the middle of the store.

    I think your are right on track with the statement about how we only listen when it is the leaders speaking. I wonder what Samuel the Lamanite would have to say about that.

    I love the parable in Section 101. What I can’t believe is how we can read the scriptures so many times yet miss all these simple things.

    Yesterday in Sunday School we were discussing Isaiah Chapters 1-6(since that is what the Lord told the Prophet who told the Correlation committee that is what we were to study). It was amazing how the chapters are a clear condemnation of ancient Israel. Yet when we apply it to our time it only applies to those outside the people. Of course the Lord would condemn an ancient covenant people but in our time he only condemns the outside world. I made sure to make a comment that applied that condemnation to our time.

  6. Aron says:


    What say you?

    I might ask these questions: Does the Lord honor the office, suggesting that the office is what is needed before someone can see, reveal or prophesy? Or, does the Lord honor the person (man or woman)?

    Here’s an interesting discussion point: The terms “prophet, seer and revelator” come from scripture where the president of the church is to “be a seer, a revelator, a translator, and a prophet, having all the gifts of God.” (D&C 107:92.) The way this is read in church today is taken to mean any person who holds the office of President of the High Priesthood is ipso facto a “seer, a revelator, a translator, and a prophet.” Meaning the office defines the gifts. What if that is not the intent of the scripture? What if the scripture means, instead, that a person who is these things is the only one to be called to the office? That is, unless the person “be” such a person possessing these gifts, he is not and cannot be the President?”

    Another question I have, along these lines, is does a “prophet” ever know that he (or she) is a “prophet” in the definition we use today? Did Samuel the Lamanite, Abinadi, the Nephis, Moroni or Mormon (etc.) ever view themselves, while in the flesh, as a “prophet”? That is, was their reliance on the “office” as important as the “gifts” that followed them?

    Numbers 12:6 reads, “And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.” This verse foretold how prophets were chosen between the time of Moses and the coming of Christ. Very few prophets, during that time, came as presiding authorities, and often weren’t part of the priestly tribe of Levi. Likewise, the NT begins with the account of an obscure priest. It wasn’t to Annas, or Caiaphus that Gabriel appeared, but to some crazy nobody.

    But, that wasn’t the original intent of this post. It’s tangentially related, but only because I think we’re wholly drawn to the “office” as the defining nature of the “gifts.” True or false?

  7. zo-ma-rah says:

    Well I usually just go to Deseret Book to oogle over the Joseph Smith Papers Volume 1. I already have Volume two.

    You make a great point about the office of the President of teh Church. When was that last time the President of the church acted as a Seer(Seer stones?). Or when have they given us a revelation for approval? When have they translated anything by the power of the Spirit alone? When have they prophecied? Predictions yes, prophecy? I haven’t heard one.

    I thinkit’s interested that the Strangites haven’t filled their leading office yet. Ever since James Strang died they have been waiting for a prophet.

    I don’t think Samuel the Lamanite thought he was a prophet. God just gave Him a message to deliver. He delivered the message and then ran away.

  8. Bryan says:

    thank you for the humble and eloquent reminder to put my trust in the arm of the flesh. And to think, I had given up on the arm of the flesh and decided to trust in my own relationship with God and in personal revelation! No, I cannot trust direct revelation from God about the path I must take in life. Instead, I must trust myself to trust other men who have, through their adherence to and preaching of the most benign and asinine points of the historically unwritten (and more recently partially written) order of ascending the ecclesiastical hierarchy of God’s corporate kingdom, earned the right to be an intercessory between God and I. But wait-without sufficient righteousness of my own, how can I trust in the revelation that I should be following these sacrosanct vessels of God’s holy word. And if I can trust that I received revelation that I should listen to these holy dudes, then could I also trust revelation that I should do something contrary to what they preach? Logically, yes. But they told me that, once I felt good about something they say (which has, most surprisingly, happened on a number of occasions), or in other words, once I have gained a testimony that they, betimes, may function at God’s mouthpieces, any future revelation to the contrary, even if it feels like the same spirit of revelation that I felt when heeding some of their words, should be ignored as a byproduct of my failure to sufficiently whiten my sepulchre. Oh no! What to do?! On second thought, thanks for nothing.

  9. Aron says:


    Thank you for those kind words. I do what I can to increase my own and our collective reliance on the arm of flesh – part of my calling these days. It would be interesting to listen to General Conference to see what/who/how many others feel the collective push to rely on those “sacrosanct vessels,” but alas I have fallen off the wagon. My own spiritual edimificacation will simply have to wait until Sunday, perched in front of the TV god, with my figurative tent pointed toward the temple of man, indeed Sacrosanct Man.

    Who was King Benjamin anyway? Dude simply could have saved us all 100s of years of misery by telling us to trust the leaders, as they know “more” than I do, instead of stammering on about how he was no better than the rest of his minions, how he hadn’t instituted heavy flat taxes, how he had labored with his own hands. For crying out loud, how hard is it to engrave some semi-egyptian characters into some gold leafed page and simply say: “Follow the Arm of Flesh, Don’t Go Astray”? Is it really so hard that he had to go all histrionics on us and tell us how it’s God that “lends us breath” and not the “Arm of Flesh”, how we’re supposed to obey the commandments of God instead of the commandments of Men? For real? Where do we get these characters, anyway? Is it that hard to find a King Shumminjamin somewhere in history who simply wanted everyone to follow him no matter what, death be the consequences, and throw him in the Book of Mormon? Do we really need to read about some dude who tells us to seek for and find knowledge of the Savior?

    Blad dee blah blah. Humma num num num.

    P.S. Sacrosanct, and the using of the same in a coherent sentence, may indeed be the coolest word on the planet. Well done, Bryan.

  10. Bryan says:

    Well done thesaurus.com–I was going to say super-duper-untouchably-unquestionably holy, for which sacrosanct is apparently shorthand.

  11. zo-ma-rah says:

    Since the Office of President of the Church provides the holder with certain gifts. The current President of the Church translated the 1 Book of King Shumminjamin using the BYU historical department. Since this is the latest book of scripture it trumps all previous scripture. Since the President of the Church can never lead the church astray, it was not presented for acceptance by the body of the church. Further more since Joseph Smith is a true prophet this book must be true.

    1st Book of King Shumminjamin

    Chapter 1

    1 The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God.
    2 If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty.

    Chapter 2

    1 Always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it. But you don’t need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray

    Chapter 3

    1 I testify in the name of Israel’s God that He will not suffer the head of the Church, him whom He has chosen to stand at the head, to transgress His laws and apostatize; the moment he should take a course that would in time lead to it, God would take him away.
    2 Why? Because to suffer a wicked man to occupy that position would be to allow, as it were, the fountain to become corrupted, which is something He will never permit.

    Chapter 4

    1 You may pray to confirm the truth of anything taught by me, King Shumminjamin.
    2 But if the Holy Spirit tells you that something is untrue then it is not really the Holy Spirit and you need to repent and pray harder.
    3 On second thought, just pray about one thing I said. If that is true then it automatically means that everything else I’ve ever said it true.
    4 But again if the Holy Spirit tells you that, that one thing is untrue then it is not really the Holy Spirit and you need to repent follow my words and pray harder.

    Chapter 5

    1 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Jerusalem; You shall have no other gods before me.
    2 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; Now behold I have given unto you my servant to be a prophet for you. And he shall be a mouthpiece and no man may come unto me save it be through my prophet. And if you receive and witness of my Spirit that contradicts when my prophet says then you will not hearken unto it. For the prophet will never lead you astray and you need not seek a witness for youself, for whatever my prophet speaks even if it contradicts my words will you shall follow.
    3 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name. Unless it is to make money wherein you may use my name. And you may use the name Zion to promote your business and gain money to make you more rich than your brethren.
    4 Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you; expect if it be for sporting events where you are justified in watching these men and praising their works. For their victory depends upon your faith, and your salvation depend upon their victory.
    5 Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God commanded you, so that your days may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the Lord your God is giving you. Unless they teach you to search the mysteries of God, wherefor you must hearken unto my prophet only.
    6 You shall not murder, but you may kill all varieties of animal life and you may raise animals for slaughter wherein you may charge the rich to hunt them.
    7 Neither shall you commit adultery. Wherefor you shall send your children to places of learning and programs to entice them to marry. And they shall be looked upon with condemnation if they shall not marry quickly. And this shall be a standing law unto you.
    8 Neither shall you steal, except for mine appointed leaders who will require ten percent of any income you receive. And you shall pay this tithing even if you do not have money sufficient for your needs. And if you give this money you will be blessed, and if not you are not faithful enough.
    9 Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor, unless it is to cover up an unpleasent part of history. For you shall only present that which will entice men and women to join your congregation. And if they shall discover you history you shall know they are weak in faith.
    10 And you shall covet your neighbor’s riches, for in this thing it shall motivate you to work harder in Babylon to earn money to by a large home and nice horses.

  12. TuNeCedeMalis says:

    King Shumminjammin! Thats awesome. It’s about time we got some new scripture, and I think this will be well received.

  13. Pedro says:

    As information is communicated to us our subconscious processes it. Our conscious mind does not even have to be aware that anything was communicated. This has been proved by flashing words on a screen which are there such a short time that our conscious mind does not perceive them. Yet sensors placed on the body verify that the mind did perceive it by the reactions of the body, kind of like a lie detector.
    My point is that when we have the truths of God imprinted on our hearts or souls and we know they are true then we are told something that is not congruent to those truths our hearts tells us, “Something is not right, don’t trust this.” We may not consciously know for years what it is that sets on edge about the communication.
    We have read where prophets, which the Holy Ghost has confirmed to us are true prophets, speak to us of having faith in the power of God.
    Moroni said,
    Moroni 7:37 Behold I say unto you, Nay; for it is by faith that miracles are wrought; and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men; wherefore, if these things have ceased wo be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief, and all is vain.
    And Mormon said this
    Morm 9:24 And these signs shall follow them that believe—in my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover;
    We learn that the power of God can heal the sick and afflicted, that the gifts of the Spirit come by faith that the gift to heal is one of those gifts.
    So when we hear someone say this:
    “It is my conviction, and my constant prayer, that there will come through research, through inspiration to scientists if need be, the power to conquer narcotic addiction through the same means which cause it. I plead with all of you to earnestly pray that somewhere, somehow, the way will be discovered to erase addiction in the human body.”
    Our heart is going to say, “That is not consistent with faith in a God of miracles and the gifts of the Spirit.” We may even consciously say that person doesn’t have faith that God is a God of miracles.
    Well here is where the above quote comes from:
    Boyd K. Packer, “Revelation in a Changing World,” Ensign, Nov 1989, 14

    Is it any wonder that we discount the words of such a man?

  14. Pedro says:

    Now I must add to my comment. Having just listened to Boyd K Packer’s talk Sunday Oct 3 He now said thatthe priesthood has power to heal addictions. So 11 years laer he has corrected what he said. So I accept this teaching today. It is according to what the HG has testified to me.
    Lessom let us not cast off those who are fallible as we are.

  15. TuNeCedeMalis says:


    Packer also said today that voting on whether a cat has a penis is the same as voting on whether people unlike us should have the legal right to marry politically.

    I can’t speak for anyone else, but I can say that the argument was not all that valid in my mind.

    His main point was to say “you just can’t vote on some things”. That makes sense as far as voting on the gender of an animal, but he never explained why you can’t vote to allow homosexuals to politically marry.

    Perhaps it is just me but this Sunday morning session of conference has been as sad as any session that I have ever seen.


  16. Opy says:

    Thank you King Shumminjammin for finally bringing forth a sealed portion of our Holy Scripture. See, we do believe that God will “yet reveal many great” things, but only when it’s in line with modern doctrine and only when it comes from the official church structured hierarchical sacrosanct super-holy COBdom.

    Troy: why was it sad?

    I only caught brief portions of the Saturday afternoon session and Sunday mornings session. So, though a few grains of salt are requested, every talk I listened to mentioned the need to (a) follow the prophet, (b) submit our personal lines of communication with the priesthood lines of communication (i.e. the official keepers of doctrine, even correlation) and (c) follow the prophet.

    If that’s all I caught, and it was, then that’s the only message I could share with someone. That would be sad, but for King Shumminjammin’s appearance on the scene.

  17. TuNeCedeMalis says:

    ” every talk I listened to mentioned the need to (a) follow the prophet, (b) submit our personal lines of communication with the priesthood lines of communication (i.e. the official keepers of doctrine, even correlation) and (c) follow the prophet.”

    And that is why it was sad.

    I love your blog.

  18. Bryan says:

    I watched a lot of talks, and the theme of follow the prophet, or “follow the Savior and his appointed leaders” seemed to come up a lot. This quote sums up conference. “We can choose to follow the prophet, or we can look to the arm of flesh.” lol! What a dilemma! We have two options–we can look to the arm of the flesh or … we can look to the arm of the flesh. Yay!

  19. zo-ma-rah says:

    There were a few good parts like where Oaks said that what we do in our families doesn’t require Church authorization. I liked that in light of LDS Anarchy’s post. But then Oaks also said in the same talk that if we receive any personal revelation that contradicts what the church corrently teaches then it is from the devil.

    I noticed that he neglected to tell us what we should do when we receive revelation in line with the Word of God yet contrary to the modern teachings of the church. Because the teachings of the church are contrary to the Word of God.

  20. Pedro,

    Packer’s precise words were:
    “The priesthood holds consummate power. It can protect you from the plague of pornography—and it is a plague—if you are succumbing to its influence. If one is obedient, the priesthood can show how to break a habit and even erase an addiction. Holders of the priesthood have that authority and should employ it to combat evil influences.”

    So I think that Packer would still have us pray to the scientists Uh, I mean God so that the scientists will come up with a cure for substance addictions. But if it is a pornography…well that is a job for the priesthood…But look closely. By priesthood he means your priesthood doctors/leaders who have not succumbed to the plague. See since they are healthy they can heal the sick. But priesthood holders with a porn addiction should not even think of using their own priesthood POWER to overcome the addiction. It doesnt work that way.

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